when the romans left…..

when the romans left…..

what i find the most fascinating of human history is why our ancestors seems to have rejected most things from what must have been in their past, when an overruler left..

the romans been a bit of the last time that happened, as many times before, many things they had already worked out have been as it looks simply forgotten, and civilisations gone back many era’s in time.

of course still many things are left, mostly the buildings that even now are still standing as proof of their quality, like the grand aqueducts, but they have not as it seems be copied on a much smaller scale.

most other things are still around in the principles of law, mostly on the european continent.

the romans are said to have used a lot of local labour, so it can be hardly only be the knowledge, and much later when the french with the little guy walked out, many habits from that time simply kept going on.

the period following on the romans are still called the dark ages, not because people all left an area, but they changed the existing culture simply to go back to ages in time. and it is mostly in the further regions.

we do know that the same people not ended up as free spirits to make freely their own choices. even if you look in the very old buildings of that time, and very few are left, most are just a kind of renovated even through all that came after, but comfort was not very implemented. nothing that could meet the underfloor heating of the romans, or things as water resources, and getting the sewage out of smell and sight.

why keep quite large of the law, there could also not have been a ban on chickens, rabbits and the pheasants they are still here, so it could not be a overall banning of all that was roman. there was no massive difference when it was about transporting goods, maybe only a bit on the organising side, but there never was a lack of guys and dolls playing boss over others.

and it happened many times before the romans too, if you look what was kept on after the the egyptians who build the pyramids, the romans must have copied a lot of them, well before them the same happened with the sumerians, and there are the phoenicians.

and all of them did leave some things behind, but the majority of the areas they once ruled had all large setbacks for at least hundreds or more years.

and not only on this side of the world, south america is even more inflicted, inca and maya civilisations left some of their monuments behind, and some things as relics still to trace upon today, but in all these cases civilisations look just as if the simply got kick out to be mostly forgotten.

the ideas not turned to a smaller scale and kept on, because they did work, but so many look like they had to start over from scratch. there are often enough lines of thought, usually different in reasoning for each time and region, but it is hard to see why that all happened with such large down scaling and so quickly.

we have of course our thought now too, about what maybe was better in the past, worked for us, most is only slowly grown in mostly habits, but we often think that going back could be for some things a good idea, but we still look around and think we would take things with us.
certainly when it is about comforts.

most is not free of sentiments, but thinking of leaving a modern toilet , or hot shower by choice out of our zone, or leave back the diversity in food, makes it hardly that attractive.
but in our own lifetimes we have a kind of flow, nothing happened so directly that it marks of as a point in time. things and habits come and go, but not so much in a way as it looks like what is given from history over much longer time.

why keep the math to build a house, but not build the house. why not keep on what did work for usually many ages. why would the next generation leave so much simply slip out of their hands?

and the romans have been the last ones of them, we had after that also the french, the spanish, and even the germans, but that lack that end of an era effect.

well we not only forgot most things roman.

and sorry to our dear moderator, but it will and can hardly be kept all roman the way, sorry in advance.

i got a for me fresh group on my timeline today, that seems to have a lot of nice picture made with lidar, not much information with it as it seems, but nice to see how it can be used and is used;
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1508789132952429/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=1861765920988080

i am always surprised how clever our ancestors must have been and with what, a bit of rope, some sticks, a foot or hand, but than meant the real ones, not just a number on a strip of metal wood or plastic.
all kind of shapes from very round, to squares, pointed stars, not much different.

but we did not only forget the romans, we forgot so much more, and the nice thing of getting your own years on the clock is that you can look back in your own memories, and how used you was to only know a part of your world just being a corn field, with the idea it always must have been that, maybe some time a bit of a field, but as you look at it you put it automatically in the box that is called agriculture. how hard it is to go beyond the history we ourselves know of , have experiences, walked around in or on it, and how easy it ends up on your private memory shelf as this is how it always was and must have been.

but maybe 4 or 5 generations earlier it could have been something very different, maybe there was the base of a working farm, or an early bit of industry to make stones from clay, or roof tiles, and a bit longer back maybe a fort, or even a stronghold, or just a bit of marsh land.
i always loved it when my grand parents told the stories, wat was there once, in the small town i was born in, how often there still be little finds to see that must have been true, from some plants still growing where the old brewery was, the hop plants still there to be found in my time, even when i looked into it it was already gone when my grand parents been children, maybe because it was in use to call the street simply behind the brewery, it came together in their memory. or from a bit later the mustard mill, were at least 20 years ago still some varieties of mustard plants had been around as weeds.

and this all was still the smallest scale, when you see what traces we as human left behind, mostly forgotten, that the idea of the original jungle in the south americas is maybe very romantic to think of, but hardly true, lidar showed that very differently.
but again the question is still the same, how can it be we have so much knowledge simply let slip away, and not only the knowledge, but complete civilisations. the romans seems to be only the last, the rest is more on a much smaller scale.

there are things simply gone forever, the netherlands are always seen as the country of the windmills, but not that long ago we had things that been watermills, a completely different structure, and we are no longer sure how they exactly looked even. not one is left behind, still many generations they made it possible to live in what would be large parts of the year marsh and reed lands. there are many models from elsewhere but not one that seems to fit with the ones used in my own area, there is one drawing that could be one, it could be simply copies from what the romans brought back from their adventures in the arabian countries. there must have been plenty, and we even found some ancestors who been watermill attendants, or keepers, through that we could find where such specific watermills must have been, but there is nothing to find anymore. not even stories that they been replaced by coal or oil turbines. still they have played a large role in making the land usable, in 800 bc a spanian nosy guy came riding up north on horseback, but could not understand why these people even want to live in such lands, much of that land is nowadays the most lived in part of the netherlands, for him it was just a jungle of mud, reed, willows and midgets.

still that are events we can get, each generation stepping up a bit further by cultivation and into civilisation and make places easier to live in.

still when you are in parts we called nature reserves, you could simply walk over just a layer of dirt over an old city long forgotten, or all the endless green fields, what once could have been a busy road through europe. with lots of small and bigger settlements.
many of that is somewhere to find back on very old maps and in paperwork and legal documents.

still it can still bring on many surprises, in a small town, i lived there years ago for a few years, and the little green field next to the old city walls, calling it city was in itself very overrated, there usually was a pony or two, or some scheep, in a corner there was a small garden to grow some veggies, some fruit trees too. and in how it looked, it would easy brought on the thought it always musty have been like we saw it.

many years earlier the old moath filled with the water from the river and rain that must protect the city to enemies was relayed a bit. so when at the end of 2020 the works started to bring back the moath in its original bedding, there was a big surprise, the grounds have been known as part of the once there build castle, but no one ever would have guessed it was the hiding place of a mass grave. it started with 9 skeletons, then 20, it kept going on, it stopped at 82!

it ended up to be mostly british soldiers that ended up in a makeshift hospital in the then still standing ruins of the old castle grounds, the war called the war of the first coalition, from 1792 until 1797, when we throw the france back behind their own borders with a kind of coalition between other states.

so much smaller scale than complete civilisations, but still very much simply forgotten in time. not even an old name for the field, just put in the ground in 2 rows, and nowhere to find any trace of it.

a picture in the link from the dutch national news article about it;
https://cdn.nos.nl/image/2020/12/14/699598/1024x576a.jpg

you tube has still a little video on, of a local school that visited the archaeological dig. the auto translation usually makes just poppycock from the dutch spoken, but it gives an idea that the dutch still are down to earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ClAzmrV4cM

so overall, we are used to forgot what was before our lifetime, and even one single generation can make that happen. the only difference is, we do seem to keep most of the knowledge on, usually in a more suited to us in out times way, but the details still will be forgotten, but still that is so very different from the complete eradication of civilisations like the romans did in moast of their once territory, but also the inca, maya and egyptian cultures look to be simply vanished.

and it gives for me a strange idea, because humans of all times seem to have looked for comfort in life. not just existing, but making life easier, not harder. for me not so much in the grandeur, but there is a difference between a tiled floor in a home and just dried mud, or ways to bring water where you can make better and easier use of it.

the idea that this unknown happening placed in our time could mean we could simply forget a city like amsterdam, and it could end up in never been there until you do the archaeological stuff, what must happen to make such things happen in just a 100 to 200 years?