madeleine mccann; concealment of the body.

the concealment of a body. part 1.

it was one of the 3 points in the consensus reached in the first portuguese investigation, and the one that naturally follows on an accidental death. this consensus placed the parents in a hypothetical guilty role.

this topic is not fit for the feeble minded, if you are one, just stop reading.

if the first point starts from a fatal accident inside or around unit 5a, and there is no body present, it must be hidden.

it is the hardest part of this case to let the mind linger on, most will not even go there, still for the officers that worked this case, that was not a luxury to make a choice in.
the ones from the public that did often come with a few possibilities, thrown in the sea, what must be the ocean of course, buried, disposed through the garbage system, burned in a fire, some even got a animal crematorium in, set in an existing grave, put in a coffin of a unknown person for cremation, natural acid baths near huelva, fed to pigs, wells.

first point is we do not know when it took place. if there was one direct route between leaving unit 5a and ending up in a last resting place.

second we do not know the intentions why the body was hidden. was it done really to keep it directly hidden forever, or was getting it only out of unit 5a to break that connection, to make third party involvement more plausible. or was it more than one route the body had to make to keep hidden.

there is also very little to point out how availability of time plays a role, time of death is unknown. the information to work from is pretty scarce, in reality it is only the arrival in portugal, because there is hard information of arrival, through the footage of the security cameras on the airport, a passport and ticket. the next point, what for this part of the case is not even to use as true endpoint was the arrival of the officers of the gnr.
the first only tells a child must be arrived to get there in the ocean club, the second that a child of the same description was no longer around, for this we can not even use the logged time of the phone call to the gnr.

time is what made much more possible, because getting rid of a body simply needs time, and many possible ways that can be used ask for much more time than available on one evening.

still many people think it is hard to hide a body, other cases tell that part of a story often very different. many bodies have been hidden for long times, in places you would even expect not to be possible.

if we look at the first searches, and mark harrison who has expertise about finding bodies in criminal cases evaluated that also in his report in the pj files.
and i can agree with that, and this is not unique. most of the people who do searches are not trained to handle that. that is not meant as negative output to all the willing and helpful people who did that searching. it is simply known that even well trained searchers are not that successful as we like to think. the training helps, but we have simply as human not the great abilities that ask to be used for such an event.

the frame of mind in first instance would be focused on a young child, that was simply still alive and lost. humans have all a bit of a problem with looking for a death body, first it is a rare experiences to stumble on a body outside, and our minds block that as a possibility most often automatically.
most people will search with that still alive child in mind, some will be better in understanding where such a still quite small child could hide itself, could use as route of access. listen to hear crying or just sniffles or any sound a child could make.
and mostly look into possible places a child can reach on its own energy.

if there was no longer a child alive, and there was even possible third party involvement, parents included, that would open much more possible routes to keep it hidden from view.

still it is one of the things you always have to do, searching even when done without the training is often just something that can be done, and can be successful, and at least to find a lost child still alive. even when first impressions on a scene are not directed into a lost child, it would be unethical to not make use of any chance to find a child still alive.

searching for something or someone that we understand as lost is also more driven by our instincts than learned behaviour. and often searching proves that it can work, because we do find what we lost.

but certainly when we have to count a third party in that being lost it asks a complete different looking at the surroundings. like places a child can not reach on its own, like heights needs much better attention.
most of the first searchers had already spent a full day with their own activities, and even fresh searching with attention to very small signs is hard to keep doing over multiple hours, it was also dark, and most would not even be familiar with the local circumstances at all. even locals would not all have even that much better knowledge. there are usually many more parts of the surroundings we do not know, even near places we have lived for years.

reading of the surroundings and being able to define parts of it that are used as route travelled to reach a next part, or used to do something, even outside your usual more familiar surroundings, require a lot of training and simply doing it, even as a habit.
mark harrison was brought in to do this, from the viewpoint, the child died and the body was somewhere hidden.

it was a shame his advise to seek local knowledge to put also a good look on more specific areas was not followed up. the portuguese coastal area in the south is so different in many aspects from the areas mark harrison normally was acquainted with, must have made it for him a lot harder too. the expertises works everywhere, but not everywhere in the same quality. the complete culture and ecology of that part of the world is so very different, a second pair of eyes with a trained mind would have been a welcome extra.

if you have to look for a body hidden, you first need technical data, about the victim, in this case it was a female child, of almost 4 years of age, height given of 90 cm was would be quite small on average of a uk born girl of that age, weight is not given, she was of normal appearance not very slim, not obese. so to get to an estimate we could take the average weight for a female of 4 years uk born, that would normally have an average height of 100 cm and an average weight of 15 kg. normally uk born female children reach the height of 90 cm when they are 2.5 years old, so she could very well been of a lesser weight in kg.

mark harrison states anything with a width of about 50 cm could work to hide this body.

to be continued.....

concealment of a body. part 2

you can not use knowledge from adult bodies after death and accept that works the same in young children. young children do not often even reach a full state of rigor mortis, not helpful because that could be a complicated factor in how to transport that body.
livor mortis does show pretty much in the same way, what results in a factor to take in mind when you want to work from the smith family sightings, at least two of them have seen the face with closed eyes, and state it was typically white as usual for uk people.
this is not a description you expect for a longer stored body or a body that has laid on the face side for some hours.
under artificial light sources it would still be visible, but with the interpretation as being dirty or a rash, or even fevered. so for this sighting it must have been a still living child, or a pretty fresh body.
it can hardly fit a body that was stored over several days in unprofessional settings.
it does not tell this family made their story up, it just means you can not use it to hang on a theory you have. and as both such a theory and this multiple people sighting are both based on words only, the smith sighting is much harder to put away. it has much more information.
and also much more back up from other words, that transport of a still fresh body in this way and moment can not be excluded on. what is together quite an army or voice, not just one lonely voice.

also if people want to use the set of trousers with buttons, the father showed later on in this story in a picture to have, with a older body it would be very hard to escape contamination with the scent of death, it would be hard to make that set of trousers the same as the set visibility thrown after use on the bed in the series of pictures taken by the police photographer the night of 3 to 4 may, 2007. your own nose can be ‘blinded’ by a scent, but forensic experts and experienced officers of the police are not. 48 hours is usually enough to make even a human nose fit to trace the scent of death. and when you know that scent, it will be very easily transported into instant recognition.

and with these things you can not say it can not be, it is maybe possible, but not very probable or likely. inclusion or exclusion also are used during an investigation with the need of margins. not margins like if you would do or do not, but more by common habits and known earlier humans who simply have done it.

if a human has once been able to do something, others must be expected as being able to do the same too. we cannot prioritize personal feelings or abilities too much in it.

also the smith sightings have been taken place without noticing the route taken after that meeting, and that road has many possible options to reach quite a large array of possible deposit sites. these sightings simply needed so much more investigation and that was sadly not followed on by the second portuguese investigation team. so that is still one big question mark. even speculation brings on still to much different scenarios and no information to put them to the test.

it is this part of the case that brought me into new fields of knowledge, i have myself no direct experience with portuguese people in portugal, i do know people who live their, who been there on holiday, portuguese people who live around me, who i even worked with, but even if you take it as a given that culture is different, how different on points you only realize if you just plunge in parts of that culture.

so i did dive deep in the garbage and waste management in the algarve and especially in praia da luz, i already expected that was needed, because we often are a bit easy thinking about the just put it in the trash, for use as the producers of such trash, or nicer worded the garbage, it ends there as an activity, in the garbage bag, can, box or mini container it is done. but garbage has a lot of life after that, with a lot of hands and eyes on it too.

so yes the garbage containers used in praia da luz are usually emptied during the nightly hours, understandable in a climate that is on average sees more higher temperatures than the more north western european countries, where a once a week schedule is more seen.

putting a body in such a communal garbage container means it will be emptied in the nightly hours, they used trucks that can do some compression, but that is also the first moment eyes and notice an object that is larger than the usual garbage.
these trucks have to drive a bit of distance to a station to load of the trucks by dumping it from a ramp, the garbage is than with a shovel bright to a installation that pressed the garbage together to large packs, these will be put in containers to be shipped for working the garbage, over multiple bands to sort out recycling parts. problem is that they build around that time, but the information lacks exact date a brand new complex for sorting the trash.
but after that is done the garbage is again pressed into large blocks and set into a quarry to stay there. older pictures of an earlier landfill system shows loose garbage that only be compressed with a shovel to keep it down.

but it never was a system that had not many moments to put an eye on a possible body, so it is not that no one the wiser system to dispose of a body forever.
the people working in this process only have to p[ick up something that is looking different, also the media attention made it quickly widely known to all.

this is one of the things why looking for the true beginning of an activity, the activity itself and the ending of it all can have many angles you have to look into before you can make use of it.
and the garbage possibility does start with a transport to a garbage container, that at least still had to be emptied that same night. to escape searchers who do look inside.
and after that it will be in other hands if a body is noticed, and this system has multiple moments this can be spotted.
so you need all the luck in the world to escape that on each of these moments.

to be continued……

the acid lakes of huelva, spain.

the acid way is always quite popular when a body has to get out of sight. well it can work, but not in an iffy=, and usually nasty things are left.
there are multiple cases known, the best known is of a englishman who got away with it for a time, but the nasty leftovers have been found. there is a case from belgium, what was quite successful for a time, but they too had to handle the left over scraps, the judge in that case had a problem believing it was possible, so he let some people do the experiment, it was actually quite well working, but not perfect, quite quick so.
the case from the most southern parts of the netherlands, belgium and germany did it better, just in a back garden, but they found a dedicated forensic scientist that had a good eye out for what kind of traces there could be left, so they found besides enough very small pieces to get them convicted.

in this case it is mostly associated to the acid lakes around huelva, a relic of mining in the past, that are named, because of a visit there of the mccann parents.

but it seems the risk of these certainly high acidic lakes seems to be more to be environmental hazard than useful for getting rid of a body, unseen, unnoticed and fully gone. not all acid is acidic enough, and not something you can just purport from looking at it.

everything under ph 4 is called acidic, but for using it for body disposal many lakes and smaller ponds would simply not be acidic enough, some of the lakes are large enough to hide a body, like any other body of water can, but there seems to be also a lot of activity in taking samples and monitoring of the risk.

and acid still takes time, we know that from the ones who used strong acids in more controlled environments, and been found out in the end. the acidic lakes of the world does not seem to get a big attraction in getting away with a body.

so the idea of a quick stop and dump a body in the nearest acid lake or pond and gone forever seems a bit too much of a fantasy.

even a local case in the huelva area from 2008 a natural water source was used to suffocate the victim, mariluz or mari luz cortes, but not to get rid of the body. so even locally it must not be a standing reputation to get rid of a body in one of the acidic lakes and ponds, what are the relics from mining.

it became popular through a tv series breaking bad and in episode 206 of myth busters it was checked, but in a much more controlled setting.
also it circulates a lot about maffia tales, or cartels in south america, but there are often only small true parts and much more that just is fantasy.

simply suggest it, needs a back up in telling how it could work, there is even quite a lot written about these lakes. so the basic science is already available to work from. the forensic data about the use of acid is too, so that cannot mean it would be that difficult to make use of. so for me it ranks under the listings great story line, but i would place my bet on myth in the making.

Before delving into the histrionics of the Huelva acid baths, after taking into consideration the unlikely ease of body disposal by such means, it's only fair and reasonable to think of a parent resorting to such drastic measures to rid the land of their beloved child!

Gerry McCann would appear to be totally in control of his life, his profession leads him towards life changing decisions at the flick of a switch but his own precious daughter thrown into an acid bath as a final resting place?

Kate McCann on the other hand would appear to be fragile, not so able to cope with the issue of hands-on body disposal without remorse. From the many interview videos recorded, Kate McCann appears very uncomfortable in the situation and totally reliant on her husband to keep things on track  Can anyone in their right mind really think her capable of standing by whilst the body of her deceased daughter is thrown into an acid bath?  The trip to Spain on a public holiday does appear rather strange but acid bath body disposal I don't think to be the reason.

Desperate times call for desperate measures?  Possibly but anything so drastic not so likely.

The couple appeared to be a normal loving family prior to the tragedy. notwithstanding I would expect them to treat their daughters body with respect by finding a more suitable location for burial with some form of secret memorial.

Can anyone really imagine Gerry and Kate McCann mercilessly throwing the body of their precious child into a bath of acid?  Can anyone imagine a family member or friend assisting with such a callous act?

The story belongs in the trash along with so many other outrageous suggestions propagated across social media.  I'm sure the story about images of women being devoured by quicksand will fit in nicely somewhere here - pity the authors of such fantastical musings can't see their own castles sinking in the sands and go home!

a lot of the suggestions of how you can get rid of a body can be done in theory. when it becomes to the practical side it can get more difficult.

and it is very hard to get a good insight in what people are willing to do when they feel driven into it. but i agree by the little that is known about them, i would not name them as the kind of people that would choose to use most of the let's call it drastic methods. and i too have not seen anything that tells of anything different than an average family, until may 3,2007.

but first things first and for me that exists of excluding what is hardly possible, very unlikely or already checked.

in itself bodies can stay long time in all kinds of places, we see every year people who usually die from old age , or at least dying from natural causes, that takes months and even years, staying behind in their own homes, before found. most in cities with neighbours everywhere. but also in murder cases bodies can end up in what most of us would call in plain sight, without found that quickly.

even when parents have a hand in killing their own children, most still have the emotions that come from losing a child. and there is usually still respect for the child, often kept near them even, hidden but not dumped.
the dumping methods you see much more in mental cases, and both parents do not fit in that.

there is not known what state the body was in, if they had help after may 3, 2007 and what kind of help. time wise and the alerts of the dogs on the car could be indications the body had made multiple transfers.

for many suggestions people only talk from the little part of a process they often handle on their own. like putting a body in a existing grave, or coffin for cremation, throwing it in the sea, or a garbage bin, but that is only the first step and only out of your own sight, most of these will have eyes on the next step and more steps. and if you really look a bit more into these, you will find out that culture makes it even a very different process than we ourselves are used too.
often in itself even very interesting.

everyone who allows itself to think portugal is a kind of third world country, has to stop and just look a bit deeper in all field that reach also into this case. it certainly is not a country where you can dump a body and no one will look twice.
when i go on holiday , i at least try to leave being organized out of my system, and it is not strange that there are many places you can be just the tourist, that is made to make you able to do that, but it still is a kind out of the true society.

so for each of the more drastic ways to try to get rid of a body, there is a very large amount of papers available, most open access, that can help to understand how wild your thinking was. and how often you have to realize that most of it , is just very unrealistic.

why hide that body? page 1 of 3

i think this is something that landed into many full so called conspiracy modes, and of course there could have been many reasons why such a choice was made. the first portuguese kept is simple, they did not named a reason, but only the choice to make it happen, based on the fact a body was not in 5a or on any other place that has been looked for it.

and we land pretty quickly in a mystery happening, because it is not by our choice, but that of a mind in its own existence but not ours.

the reasoning of why does not even have to sound or contain logic at all. the answer is simply up to the mind it comes from. we do not have to agree about how sane or how stupid the thoughts have been, many times it simply is not needed to even to understand it.

the motive, or motivation in crimes is simply not always that easy to get. certainly when decisions are made in split second adventures, there is ample time to put anything like thinking in it. and motives are often very personal, much more than functional, or logical at all. while motive works great in crime fiction, it has often not so much importance in an criminal investigation in real cases.

yes, it is great to keep it as a part of the mystery, something to keep many minds very busy, finding movies that you could understand, can get so to say.
still in criminal cases it is usually not that important, it can become a bit of importance when a case is handled in court, because motivation, or the why can help to decide what kind of punishment will be the outcome, or even if at all. it could be from such insane reasoning that they better kept in a secured environment for long time, not so much in jail, but facilities that can deal with mental cases, like with therapy or just keep them out of society.

why would we have to understand a reasoning from things like; i don’t like mondays. that could mean something to a perpetrator, but it is not uncommon to not like mondays itself, but using it as a motivation to do criminal stuff is.

hiding a body is not even permanently bound to also have killed the person whose body was to hide. it can be starting from emotions and not wanting to have to say goodbye, it can be because there is no money to pay for an accepted way of body disposal.
feelings of shame on you without a crime to hide with it, that does happen too.

it get a bit different when the hiding of a body is used to keep other crimes hidden with it. no body cases are much more difficult to proceed and before that to investigate, because you miss a lot of extra information a body left behind can tell.

in most cases a missing body can have a large effect on changing the past. it is much easier to get a believable story out that is was not in your hands.

and in this case missing does not have the conclusion of also a dead body. it was in the consensus of the first portuguese investigation that there must have been a dead body that was hidden. this body in that consensus did not meet the criteria of culpable guilt, they called it an accidental death. the criminal part of this consensus started with keeping a body hidden, or concealment of a cadaver as it official is named. and to explain why a body that had died by accidental fatal trauma was no longer there, a follow up was undertaken by staging the scene as if a crime has happened, and that is a crime too.

the why that body must be hidden exists in the author(s) of hiding the body. it is very likely that when we know the ‘why’, being in a completely different mindset, or even place ourselves in the shoes of such author we would not accept it as a good, solid, okay or even reasonable act of thought.
and if this author had been in the same frame of mind as we are when we find out about the reasoning, that same person could have made a different decision.

and it cannot be deduced that not coming back from an earlier decision all, people not owning up to ending a situation by telling the truth at all, that must mean what is behind it must be very bad.
that all happens in the mind of the author, often not so much the why it was done in the first place, but stepping back and reflecting, and trying to repair that earlier decision is simply not a given in all people and all situations.

we as onlookers to this case have over the many years got into a list of possibilities, and it is mostly into the eye of the beholder, for situations when a body has to be hidden would be understandable to us. in itself it are of course only hypothetical reasons, the information needed to point a finger on one is not there. all we can do is put a row of baskets in a line and throw snippets in the one with the purported possibility and see if it reaches our own threshold.
the hard thing is, never forgetting that we do not have a need to understand the why. and that must be number 2 on each list.

so what did we get together, when looking into why a body had to kept hidden;

1.we have no idea about anything
2.the body is hidden, but for not to understand reasonings
3.to hide the use of sedatives and fear of losing jobs.
4.physical child abuse
5.sexual abuse
6.shame and to keep up appearances, and losing parental rights and effects on jobs.
7.to cover up for other friends
8.to cover up for (in)famous people
9.to cover up swinging
10.to cover up a international network of a sexual nature, or religious purposes by not socially accepted religious rites
11.taken back to the cloning program.
12.to harvest organs after, or by result of no 11
13.all others i am forgetting, or already have left my mind

page 2 of 3.

number 3 has already its very own topic. number 1 is more of our own making a choice in thinking for someone we do not know, let's call that the ‘i would not go there’ motivation. something that even when it can be the result of different stances simply need to be accepted.
number two is a very realistic one, and the one used by the first portuguese investigation, they have not put much effort in reporting a formulation of reasoning by the author(s) they name with it. only later on after the investigation was shelved some put words to number 3.

for me, numbers 2 to 6 are worth to look into. the rest is for some possible if they at least have some information that would reach into my own threshold of acceptability. that threshold is for looking into it not even that high, but still higher than; it is said on the internet by unknown theo or marlene.

and as is a big overall problem in this case, the lack of information, and i mean information that is from the case itself, not from all other minds around it, it will only be up to opinions we have of our own.

numbers 4 and 5, are only 2 out of the 3 forms of child abuse, the third emotional abuse is not something that would show of on a body. this is a hard part to cover, simply because it can be very hard to impossible to notice it. it also can be very recent, so in such cases the past would not tell much.

it is a topic that is difficult in itself, and there is little true understanding between the group that escapes it and the group that had to endure it. this is simply the result of how society works. the parent is painted with sainthood, that first have to be taken down with a very high burden of proof, before it is accepted to talk about bad or no parenting at all. we ask simply from minors things we never would ask from them in other situations, and there is an all around line, not even an tendency to play it down.
most estimates get it into at least 1 in each group of 10 children who experience 1 or more of these abuse forms first hand.

we would not drive cars if the chance the brakes would fail was once every 10 times used, and we would not dare to think that to be called on average they are of good quality.
for parents and most other adults that are part in the lives of children we simply do.

so the other 9 out of 10 have no first direct experience of one of these forms of abuse by their parents. the number for experience the same from non parents or direct carers is much higher. some of the other 9 will be witness of abuse, or lived at least with it noticing it.

but still at least 5 out of 10 usually have not a fair idea what the others are talking about.
when they do of course, because it is not a topic that is accepted in society at all.
the truth seems simply too harsh to deal with.

there are no perfect parents, but there is a majority that are indeed good parents, but there is not a guide to recognise them easy, and see what goes wrong and very wrong in all that do not meet that good in any way.
most nasty ones do look often even much better than the true good ones. pretenders do make good believers.

so back to this case, with my own knowledge that parents are not good people because they have simply offspring, but only can be credited as good enough by their actions, i cannot say i have seen actions that reach to a conclusion. it is easier to say, for the bits i have seen i do not see much reason to say, this was a family with the practice of abuse.

there are still points that need covering in that;

the neglect from leaving such young children while dining out with a silly copied system of checks, if simply true does not have to have a direct form of abuse, 7 out of the 8 children have not been harmed from it.
it is for me more of having no idea of the true risks, there are simply too much what iff’s that could have made that outcome so different, that i call it simply stupid. as the full story about madeleine is still not known, and all possible thought out possible events could certainly have a feed into that being still missing.

it falls more into very bad parenting, than abuse, because the child in it would not experience a direct negative result from it, at least 7 out of 8 did not.

portugal seems, i write seems, because my portuguese is not of any order to explain their full intentions of their law, so i too have to get from explanations through others, not to have a law written that would this checking system by parents in itself criminal, leaving children alone is just one element, but when the other element of that law is not met, and that is with intent to let them come to harm, the first part in its own would not be enough to make it criminal.

we can say what a ridiculous piece of law, but think a bit more, in the portuguese society leaving children on their own is socially not accepted, but it is even worse, the mass simply never get it in their right mind to leave a child alone, their society is build on having children around and with you. so there is hardly any reason to do that leaving alone.
so there is no need for such laws.

most of us live in societies that are no longer fit children in at all times and moments, so it is simply expected that this need guidance through law to cover that in a way, that child still gets the needed care.

neglect in itself is usually covered in laws that invest on taking precautions, the abuse is not direct a part in it or off it, but can be a result from it, but the harm can also happen when there is no direct abuse. abuse also has a higher burden of intent.

with child abuse the only wat to know it happened or not for sure is usually letting the victims talk and you decide to believe them. in all other cases the abuse goes already so far wrong that other explanations can not be used to talk it out.

so overall i can not get it beyond, i have not noticed signs that could answer the question about abuse present or not.

there are for me still question marks on the gaspar statements;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

and the yvonne warren martin statements;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

both sources need a lot more information before taken as fact.

all the pictures of madeleine do not show anything at all, but my own childhood pictures would not be usable for such information too. the reason is very simple, because society loves pretending over truth in these matters, so it ends up with great skill sets in pretending, acting and good liars.
so stop looking for pictures for write ups about distance between parents and a child, it will be useless. abuse is part of the picture or it is not, or simply hidden well.


for me and that is based on my own guts, feeling, impressions so all the soft feedback from this case, option 6 feels the best fitting one.

if i take for that the life stages the parents been in, a young family, just starting to settle more, a bright future in a medical career for the father, the step up they both made from their back grounds, 3 children 2 girls but a boy too. just a few years in a nice house, socially well excepted. i would not call them rich or wealthy at all, a mortgage on the house, maybe still some loans from the years of study to solve, keep all shining on the outside of their lives.
they maybe just started to get into the feeling of we made it, but still more based for the ongoing future.

the children are born through ivf, twins are more likely with that, but maybe not what they had counted for. children are never cheap, more income means usually also simply more spend on the children. together with the effort they had to get into to made them born could still play an extra thought in it too.
such thoughts they had not covered beforehand, can still count after that ended up badly. the risk of losing a child is different in that chapter, than when you just indeed lost one truly.

so yes i can paint a mind fed with all these, in itself, smaller things into a split second stupid decision to hide a body, clean up the scene and turn the attention to a bogeyman.

they were at foreign ground, had no idea of the laws, maybe heard stories that are always doing the round about horrible prisons, and police interventions. fear ot the uk media,being painted frontpage as the young doctors who put the good life above their duties.
losing the twins, or even would to have an interfering warden on all about the children, the reaction of family at home, and that would never stop and caught in all things the rest of their lives.
the blemish on their name and an fear of that for their or even only his career.

and that hiding could have done by just one man, the help after the facts is still a guess, but calling in the media and imprinting the public with it was an abduction, there is a bogeyman on the loose, and keep that line going, would stepping back no longer feasible.

the only investment of putting the abductors position to a person was by kate mccann on robert murat, but still not with much effort, and most of that was a gift from the others of the tapas 9 group. but no others have had much attention of the mccanns, and if you both know there is no such person, and you know your child is dead. it would be hard to keep that game playing out

page 3 of 3

numbers 7,8 and 9 have in common that it still would be about people known by the parents.

7 and 9 would be mostly directed to the friends there, but it is not there i think. their overall presence on the ground is embedded enough in the story of the bystanders.
the swingers is a very typical myth that gives often just some extra glow in the dark around a group of people. it does happen more often than thought, but it is usually more found out in a conversation, than openly told in a more public setting. the ones who told me they did it, had no problem talking about it in a more direct conversation, without the details usually, but more telling they take part in that. most of these stories are even from many years back. and i think with hindsight i even have seen the first parts of such events in our neighbourhood in the seventies, because i could not think why these people had so much fun walking in not the commonly living faces in that house into doors. it needed quite some time to keep my young sharp ears to all the gossip around before i got it into an idea what i could have seen.

it never was met with much negative talk, more a curious or why would you do that talk. but it was attractive to gossip about. but that was in the netherlands of course, and i know we have that stigma of being tolerant, what in daily life is not really that true.
i have no idea how it was a topic in the uk, or in the circles of the tapas 9.

covering actions of a friend sounds less plausible, and i have to go from the numbers and stories of cases i do know about, that usually when it is about sexual abuse of children, when there are others, and it means the parents know about it, they take part of it too, or they have a by their own dependence more to get from it, than they think the child can lose. covering up would be more on a smaller scale, like within the family or a smaller circle of people.
when it is known to the police that is hardly done, at least not to the investigation, in daily affairs that can be understood differently.

numbers 10 and up makes us land easily into the world of conspiracies, often there are true parts in it, or just a misunderstanding.
it is as old as societies of humans probably, i grew up with tinkers and gypsies who would steal kids, and child luring males. that would of course do horrible things to kids, but it was never told what they would do, and asking ended easily in a slap around your ears.
not much changes even, tinker and gypsy are now the nomads and van living bunch maybe.
i myself met little people of these groups, that had any wish to harm me, gypsies are now called roma and sinti. tinkers still come with the nick name travellers, or in dutch campers, because they do not often travel anymore. most of their jokes are only in name still mobile.

for me they are simply other people, it is much easier and less risk to offend others because you mix up a specific group. and it works both ways, not very effective i have the idea.
and from all people , there is enough variety to have bad ones and a lot of average souls and a few really good ones.
in my side of criminal affairs i never could put a more specific group as more excelling in crime. i do not like to do each time a bit of half baked profiling each time before i start to catch one for something. it would be time you never could get back. nowadays even all possible field of crime get once a year a dedicated amount of hours that year. so usually you do not want to spoil that too much. overtime in that manner cost a lot of talking and writing.

i do see also a lot of mason activity named in this case, but i know quite a lot of guys of who been found out, that they are members, and over many years, i never have seen much of all the things i see promoted by non-members on the internet. they are simply males who like to put on very old fashioned clothing, doing old fashioned things, but more as a game or even a bit of fooling around in a theatrical way. with a kind of monthly evening with the other boys in a boys zone only. a bit of an old boys network, but nothing in it to assist in any criminal activity.
the presentation as if it was a gang for the better off guys is for me simply not real.

paedo networks do exists, but i think the term has another understanding in law enforcement than in the public. yes, there are usually pretty commercial groups or individuals, that organise a platform for talking and selling of their awful material, or exchange it under the users of a platform.
but the organisation is usually not the producer of the stuff, most of it is home made, the majority even nicked from social media, the child at the beach, or in a tub.
most have to pay an entrance fee, and usually that is not money but a large amount of pictures that fit their liking.

but i have never seen cases of groups that hunt children down to make their stuff, that seems still the work of their own parents and carers, and individuals, sometimes a pair, most of all for their own use, but many more also because the market for it is there. and there is hardly a need to pick children from pretty average families to make use of, children of all kinds and colours are still sold by parents or carers, rented out, runaways and with a much, much lower risk to get caught doing it, besides that there are places to get easy access to children, from sporting clubs to holiday camps, schools even. and it is not unknown that some of the abused are paid, sometimes money, other times goods or assistance they fancy. it is not something that is restricted to the children of the poor and uneducated parents or carers, it happens everywhere.

it would at least be nice if people who call out about networks, if they explain how they see such a network coming together. or simply what they mean with it. it is hard to discuss possible signs if we have no clue what they are about.

for this case there is not enough information to build a picture around paedo networks, or the rich and the famous walking in the case itself. 90% of the information used is no information but just speculation. people to be suspicious about with a link to sexual child abuse are everywhere, the numbers used are of course by estimate, but 1 to 2 in each 100 males have a form of fixation on minors, usually they have a specific age group and gender in mind, on top of that there are a higher but unknown number that does not care about the victim, as long as they can handle them. the long list in this case that never was published was made by the uk police, what usually would mean that most of the people on it been from the uk too, or had a link to the uk. there is no real international list of nasty people in this matter. male and female too. portugal had their own list to work from.

but the information cannot be very freely exchanged between countries, eu is not about justice, that is always covered by each country on its own, interpol and europol are of help,
but there are no international registers.

and if we look to the parents, there is hardly material to include or exclude anything in this matter. and all of us can have easily around 5 people near us, that are in a way part of it.
so looking for connections is usually not overly useful. you need a fair bit more than just that.

what did not help was the showing of two at first glance very different pictures, and not think about how many would not read the text with them, or the words spoken to these pictures.
so half the reactions now find room for a false flag intro into this case.

and for entering names because people are rich, or famous without anything that can even be called a connection into this case is not funny at all. the case of madeleine is not a communal storybook, we all can put a chapter in. we are allowed to have our own opinions, but come on it is nice if you feed your mind with real information, and a reality check would not harm anyone.

i know it can be enchanting to think out of the box, but it is not needed to reach out so far in such big boxes your mind goes lost. there are many things you cannot exclude or include fully, but there is no need to bring in fantasy or weird thoughts in the expanse it sometimes does. it can help to walk backwards through the story you formed, at least to that point there is something known about. and sailing your own ship with each changing wind would not bring you home too.

so when you have nothing that can be used as a check, and you have not a print out of a magical mind reader, it is hard to really discuss what was the true reason to conceal a body in this specific case. all we can do is thinking a list together in what humans already have used as a motivation to hide a body. but there is nothing clear enough to bring it out of the supposed stage. you cannot put it to a vote and say this or that one must be the truth.

so all discussion about it has a need of very fat printed question marks to all of it.